Never Been Punched (Or Why I Can’t Write About Cheating)
“When I’m not experience telling, I’m bullshitting. I’m making stuff up. I’m theorizing about something that I know nothing about.” – Everett Bogue1
This post was meant to be about cheating. I’ve met several guys in recent months who seem to have no problem cheating on their girlfriends, and such behavior doesn’t sit right with me. I was going to get all high and mighty in this post, telling you how I’ve never cheated on a girlfriend, and giving reasons why I never would.
But then I realized, shit, I’ve never really been tested!
It’s not like I’ve had ladies chasing me my whole life, and I haven’t had all that many girlfriends. What if 21-year-old me had been in a relationship but out sans girlfriend at a bar one night. And what if a really hot stranger started flirting with me at that bar and offered up no-strings sport sex back at her place? Would I have been strong enough to say no?
As Mike Tyson once said, “Everybody has a plan ’til they get punched in the face.”
I’ve never been punched, so what do I really know?
As such and for now, I’ll hold back on sharing all my thoughts on cheating. I’m gradually getting to the point with romantic relationships where I do find myself with more options, where I expect I’d have ample opportunities to cheat when in a relationship. So let me see what that’s like for a while and then get back to you.
Experience Telling
Ev Bogue got me thinking about all this. He strives to only write about things that he has direct personal experience with. As quoted up top, anything written about that’s not from personal experience might as well be considered bullshit.
I’m going to disagree a little with that though, or perhaps I’m just elaborating. Regardless: I believe it’s important to distinguish between direct and indirect experience, and realize that both can be valuable.
For example, imagine a husband and wife going through a rough patch in their marriage. They figure it might help to talk things over with someone who has experience dealing with such issues. Who should they go to?
- An elderly couple they know who have been happily married for forty years.
- A local priest who has been doing marriage counseling for twenty years.
Not so long ago2 I would have told you that #2 was a stupid idea. What would a priest know about romantic relationships? Assuming he was a good priest, he would never have had any direct experience with such, whereas the elderly couple would be able to speak from direct experience, and therefore their advice would be much more valuable.
Right?
Perhaps not. While the elderly couple could share their experience, it would only be one experience. Their strategy for maintaining a happy marriage probably wouldn’t work for a lot of other couples.
Meanwhile, the priest could draw on his twenty years of experience dealing with all kinds of people in all stages of marriage. He’d be able to recommend several strategies to resolve certain issues because he’d have seen countless other couples attempt to resolve similar. He’d know what’s likely to work, and what isn’t. His experience, while indirect, would still be very valuable.
Your take
So I could tell you what I think about cheating and why it sickens me, but I wouldn’t be writing from any kind of experience, direct nor indirect. I’m flying blind both ways, at least for now.
So this post isn’t really about cheating. Let’s not even tackle that issue in the comments. Instead, tell me what you think of experience telling. What do you do when someone asks for your advice in an area where you have neither direct nor indirect experience? Do you try offer a helpful response anyway? Do you think it’s possible to give good advice without ever having been through or exposed to relevant experiences yourself?
…
P.S. I just added footnote functionality to the blog (see below). Should help with reading flow while still providing additional info for whoever might be interested. Must give a shout out to Andrew Caldwell, since I stole the footnote idea from his blog 
Full disclosure about any knowledge that you have, and how you gained it, is probably the best policy.
I recently read Sam Harris’ book ‘Lying’ and he advocates honestly in every situation. On the topic of experience telling, honesty is definitely the best way to go. You can give people advice, but as long as you tell them how you came about this knowledge (I lived it or I read about it) then that allows the other person to choose how they receive that information.
Saying that you can’t speak about some topic because you’ve never experienced it yourself is an artificial limit that need not exist.
Thanks, Taylor.
I just read that Sam Harris book, too. I didn’t conclude that he rules out lying in all circumstances though. I’m thinking of the following passage in particular:
“If you think that it can ever be appropriate to injure or kill a person in self-defense, or in defense of another, it makes no sense to rule out lying in the same circumstances.”
But yeah, great point about giving advice while letting the other person where that advice is coming from. The receiver should take some responsibility, too.
Can you not go & speak to both the elderlly couple and the priest?
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Absolutely. My point above was that the priest is worth talking to. Not so long ago I was thinking that he’d have nothing of value to share with me because he wouldn’t have had any direct experience.
I think you can give a helpful advice even if it doesn’t come from personal experience.
The main thing for me when it comes to advices is that they are objective, that go in the best interest of the person that receives them and that come from someone that knows you well enough, it really doesn’t matter so much if they are not supported by personal experience.
On the other hand, I, personally, prefer to speak or advice mainly when I have personal experience, direct or indirect, about the subject that back me up and enrich the advice.
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“in the best interest of the person that receives them”
Love that. Thanks, María
Man I can tell something about this. I been there, I done that. But I’m not perfectly proud of myself for it. I cheated my girlfriend just for not binding sex. But then I realized that something like that is not fullfilling, so I guess I’ve learned something. Maybe I’ve had to prove something to my inferior-self. But now I know that cheating on your girlfriend doesn’t give you anything. Maybe it’s just sign of something you have to notice. Like I did. It’s not worth it at all. Everybody have to learn themselves.
I would think that it really depends on the situation, yes if you friend is experiencing marital issues and you give him advice when you have never experienced anything like it then I would say that is telling him bullshit BUT you don’t have to kill someone to know that murder is bad.
Right, but you’d have to have murdered someone to know what it’s like to deal with the aftermath. Then you could give some great counseling to death row inmates.
Or something like that
The only thing I could speak about that I have experience with is having a quarter-life crisis. Everything else is just me bullshitting.
I think it depends a whole lot on who are you asking to.
Asking to a priest who is expert in relationships, without knowing anything else about this particular priest, is something I probably would not do, because I am not catholic and I have probably a very different background from the priest AND from the many people he has counseled.
When I hear advice I am listening to somebody else’s opinion. A solid background of experience, direct or indirect, helps, but since the world is mostly what we see of it, it doesn’t matter if this experience is direct or not, as long as what we hear helps us to solve the issue we have moving from the context we (and not the person giving the advice) see. If we can’t agree on the context with the person advising us, I’d think it’s a waste of time. So, who are you asking to?
“since the world is mostly what we see of it, it doesn’t matter if this experience is direct or not, as long as what we hear helps us to solve the issue we have moving from the context we (and not the person giving the advice) see.”
Very good point, Dario. Thanks for commenting.
Good point, Niall.
I do believe in experience telling and support Ev’s and Gwen Bell’s ideas about that to roughly about 90%.
I would never bullshit about having experience in something when I actually don’t.
However, if it was a friend, I would at least try to help out and try to gather any info that I ever received about the problem at hand, or tell about similar experiences other people had and how they dealt with them.
BUT, I wouldn’t actually try to give any advice. I would just try to give different perspectives to make the other person think or consider alternatives if they are stuck.
I try to refrain from giving actual real advice on things I have never experienced. I have realised that it’s useless. It makes me feel like a hypocrite. I might give an opinion, but that’s pretty risky too. But I always have an opinion and I have a hard time holding it back.. oops.
You see, in your example, I would never go to see the priest. He has no bloody idea what it means to share a life with someone. I wouldnt take his advice as valuable or apply it to my situation. I guess, I couldn’t take him seriously.. (and that’s not just because I’m not religious)
Thanks for the comment, Conni.
I was nodding along with you all the way until the last point. I’m not religious either, but I’ve come round to liking the idea of getting a priest’s perspective — not on everything, but sometimes — because it would probably be so different to everything else and lead me to think about things that I never would have considered otherwise.
can’t have your cake and eat it too! I have been cheated on(so long ago when I was 15-16) but never cheated myself. I don’t think I could because I am always so worried about hurting someone. And I don’t think I could look stand myself. My take is basically get out of the relationship and then sleep with/kiss/get close to whomever you like. I am married to my highschool sweetheart, so I am have not much experience with dating.
In terms of whom is the best to get advice from, I think the old couple would be the most valuable to me. The priest’s opinion is only objective where the old couple’s experience makes then subjective AND being not in your relationship, also objective.
I mean I dont’t think I could stand myself. Whoops, slow down Devin!
this is your first video I’ve watched, since I just found you yesterday. I think I need to take some Dramamine for the next one.
Haha, thanks for the comments, Devin.
To play devil’s advocate: What if that married couple had always had an open relationship? Would you still seek their advice over that of the priest?
The point I’m trying to make is that the couple would only have their own personal experience to draw from, and that may be very different from yours.
Interesting thoughts, Niall.
I think experience telling is valuable but would disagree that anything else is bullshitting. So much of what we learn and experience can be useful in other situations even though they aren’t directly related. We can share our experiences in ways that may be helpful to someone else. Just because we haven’t been through exactly what they have, doesn’t mean we don’t have valuable knowledge they can benefit from.
I don’t think we’d learn nearly as much if people only spoke from direct experience. Everything is connected and related on some level and we can take some piece of it and apply it to whatever we’re going through.
I do understand you not wanting to speak about cheating when you haven’t experienced it. But I have to say, as someone who’s been cheated on and tempted to cheat and didn’t, that it’s really about personal character and integrity. You either have it or you don’t. And you do. So I don’t think your thoughts will change much even if you are tempted some day.
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It’s my belief that both the sharing and receiving of information including that of experience should come from a position of responsibility. In the same way that you indicate you’ve “never been punched”, Niall.
As a person providing experience or information sharing, are we really clear on the repercussions of said support to the recipient and possibly harmful effects to others in the event the recipient acts on our advice?
Are we clear that the recipient of our shared information may act or make choices in a way that might be irresponsible and potentially harmful to others, due to our involvement and are we prepared to own that responsibility, completely?
Are we clear that our message will be interpreted by the recipient in a way that we intended?
Of course we may become stuck ourselves because of the weight and gravity of our responsibilities and our desire to “do no harm”.
In the end, the individual sharing should be 100% invested and committed to their responsibility of sharing.
Also, an additional thought on this.
When sharing with a general and broad audience, a more general and broad sharing is often the best approach.
When sharing with someone specific, as an effort to support, it is often a valuable approach to actually encourage the recipient to come to their own conclusions based on their own needs, rather than providing our experience or knowledge as a solution to their unique situation.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Kevin. I like your emphasis on responsibility.
I didn’t get much from this entry; gotta be honest.
Philosophizing is a word. However, philosophophizing (one of my favorites), which sounds so much better, isn’t
Experience telling has a TON of merit, and I find that I enjoy recording videos/writing posts about my personal experiences. Definitely my favorite part of blogging. Relating big concepts to small events that happen in daily life.
I agree with you about the value of indirect experience. Socrates, Plato, etc..didn’t have direct experience with every single thing they wrote about, but their stuff has so much value. So indirect experience is good as well.
The main problem with indirect experience is that it’s almost impossible to offer a new perspective on an issue, because so many people in the past have probably covered it before.
Your stories are your own. They’re unique, and they can never be fully repeated.
Thanks,
Josh Lipovetsky
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Great point, Josh. Thanks for that.
I used to think I’d never cheat. I never even really wanted to, but then I found myself 4 years into a 6 year relationship and trying to figure some things out. So, like Mike Tyson said, you don’t know what you’ll do til you’re in that situation.
Now, for my next relationship, after the initial period of ‘omg I love you so much and I can’t even think about anyone else’ (you know – THAT period..I’ve done this 3 times, so I know what I’m talking about
), I’m going to have an agreement that if someone cheats, fine, but don’t tell. I don’t want to know. If you’re committed to someone but fuck up a little, I think it’s better to just keep the peace.
I never told 6 year bf about what I did. That would be cruel. It’s over now. I’m not interested in wounding him further.
Interesting take, Caroline. Thanks for that.
I feel like I shouldn’t cheat if I’m not willing to tell the other person about it. If they’d rather not know, fine, but I should still be at least willing to tell them.
But having also been cheated on, I don’t want to feel that again. It can ruin something that’s otherwise good. Or maybe now that I’ve been on both sides of cheating it won’t feel the same if it happens again.
Course, there are plenty of ways to make your significant other feel like crap. There are other ways to ‘cheat’ that involve things like money, not other lovers. Ahh it’s enough to make me turn my back on relationships (..no, it’s not..as my friend likes to say, ‘I love love’.)
You really should get punched in the face. It’s a lot like being cheated on; it’s sort of a “oh, is that all” feeling.
At least, it was for me. I recommend both experiences. How do you know anything about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight?
His name is Robert Paulson…
Hi, Niall! This is my first time visiting your blog — found you through Vlad Dolezal’s Alive With Passion blog. I love your approach and can’t wait to spend some time poking around here.
One thing that jumped out at me about this post was the whole concept of “Oh, I’d never…(fill in the blank).” That’s definitely a statement that gets less black and white and more and more gray as one gets older, I think. My best friend and I have often laughed about things we haughtily said we’d “never” do when we were in our 20s — as it turns out, now that we’re in our 40s we realize we’ve done a few of them!
I’m with you on the cheating, though. It just doesn’t fit with my self-concept. But the older I get, the less judgmental I get about other people who cheat, though — that’s another subject that’s often not as black and white as it seems at first glance. I still don’t like or respect it, but I also can’t say it’s always 100% wrong.
Thanks for a thought-provoking post!
Thanks for the comment, Lynn! I also find myself having less oh-I’d-never’s as I grow older. One of the reasons I don’t mind aging